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afd near lift shafts for L5/M
#1
What is everyones opinion on L5/M systems and afd nwithin 1.5 metres of lift shafts?

We have a 3 storey business site fire risk assessed by someone who put afd on escape routes, boiler rooms, kitchens etc AND in the lift shaft and lift motor room.

But they DID NOT SPECIFY AFD ON THE MAIN FLOORS ADJACENT TO (1.5 METRES OF) THE LIFT SHAFTS THEMSELVES. Do we just believe the risk assessor? Or argue the case that if they see the lift shaft as a risk then they need to protect the openings from that lift shaft to the main area?

p.s. A recommendation has no affect, they will only do stuff they have to do!

thanks for your input all...
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#2
If they saw a risk in the critical areas surely there should be detection outside the chimneys!!, more so after Grenfell.
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#3
22.2
c) Other than in Category L4, L5 and P2 systems, if any flue-like structure, shaft for a lift, escalator or hoist, or any enclosed chute, penetrates one or more ceilings, a fire detector should be sited at the top of the shaft or enclosure and, on each level in the accommodation area, within approximately 1.5 m of the penetration.

The need for fire detectors in these positions should be considered at the design stage of Category L5 and P2 systems.

NOTE 1 For any of these flue-like structures a fire detector within 1.5 m is needed only in the areas protected by the category of system in question.



If they cover the lift shaft then you need to have one 1.5 m of the penetration

but the note says if that area is not covered by the category then you don't need it so if the lift doors don't open on to escape routes, boiler rooms, kitchens etc then no detector if they do fit a detector
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
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#4
(09-03-2018, 03:18 PM)Will Lloyd Wrote: 22.2
c) Other than in Category L4, L5 and P2 systems, if any flue-like structure, shaft for a lift, escalator or hoist, or any enclosed chute, penetrates one or more ceilings, a fire detector should be sited at the top of the shaft or enclosure and, on each level in the accommodation area, within approximately 1.5 m of the penetration.

The need for fire detectors in these positions should be considered at the design stage of Category L5 and P2 systems.

NOTE 1 For any of these flue-like structures a fire detector within 1.5 m is needed only in the areas protected by the category of system in question.



If they cover the lift shaft then you need to have one 1.5 m of the penetration

but the note says if that area is not covered by the category then you don't need it so if the lift doors don't open on to escape routes, boiler rooms, kitchens etc then no detector if they do fit a detector

Thanks all. They have specified afd in the lift shaft and lift room (above the shaft) and in the areas the lift opens onto. But not within 1.5 metres of the lift opening. I'll show them this extract and they can officially ignore it! Thanks for your help.
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#5
I'm going off topic but its my thread so I can do!

At a different site to the above a risk assessor has put in afd in a room with a clothes dryer, a boiler room and a kitchen. But not in the main electric room nor in the escape corridor adjacent to it!

If we had to choose 1 place to put a smoke detector for L5/M would it be better to:

1 - Fit the smoke in the room of hazard (electric room) to give earliest warning of fire

or:

2 - Fit the smoke in the escape corridor adjacent to the electric room as this system is to protect life only (L system) and to protect the electric room would be protecting property.

The reason I ask is that on yet another site the risk assessor did not put a heat in a top floor kitchen as it was not adjacent to an escape route, nor was it part of an escape route as it was a 'dead end' and the room between the kitchen and the escape route had afd in it. He stated that a heat detector would only be placed in the kitchen for this building for 'property protection'
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#6
put it as close to the switch room as you can, as close to best of both worlds as you can get, Personally there is more risk in the switchroom (the care home in Scotland springs to mind).
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