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Callout response time
#1
As detailed in 2017 bs5839:

46.3 Recommendations for arrangements for repair of faults or damage
The following recommendations are applicable.
a) Where maintenance is carried out by a third party, such as a fire alarm maintenance
organization, there should be an agreement for emergency call out to deal with any fault or
damage that occurs to the system.
The agreement should be such that, on a 24 h basis, a technician of the maintenance organization
can normally attend the premises within 8 h of a call from the user.
NOTE It is accepted that this might not be possible in very remote areas and certain offshore islands, in which
case this ought to be regarded as a variation from the recommendations of this part of BS 5839 in respect of
maintenance arrangements. Such a variation would need to be recorded in the system logbook.
b) The name and telephone number of any third party responsible for maintenance of the system
should be prominently displayed at the main CIE, and the records and documentation as
identified in Clause 40 should be kept updated.
c) The user should record all faults or damage in the system logbook, and should arrange for repair
to be carried out as soon as possible.

So:

1 - If you have an 8 hour response time is that to fix the fault? Or to attend first visit within 8 hours?
2 - Can you call the site and 'stop the clock' on the 8 hour response before, say, ordering parts, ordering a mewp, arranging access, dispatching an engineer etc etc?
3 - If there is an 8 hour response but the site closes in 2 hours and are unwilling to wait at the site for an engineer do you get another 6 hours the next day they are open to attend?
4 - Can you remotely access the system e.g. dialling in to a system, talking the customer through a problem (e.g. temporary mains failure) or do you have to physically visit site?

Opinions on a postcard please!
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#2
(02-07-2019, 01:03 PM)alonso Wrote: As detailed in 2017 bs5839:

46.3 Recommendations for arrangements for repair of faults or damage
The following recommendations are applicable.
a) Where maintenance is carried out by a third party, such as a fire alarm maintenance
organization, there should be an agreement for emergency call out to deal with any fault or
damage that occurs to the system.
The agreement should be such that, on a 24 h basis, a technician of the maintenance organization
can normally attend the premises within 8 h of a call from the user.
NOTE It is accepted that this might not be possible in very remote areas and certain offshore islands, in which
case this ought to be regarded as a variation from the recommendations of this part of BS 5839 in respect of
maintenance arrangements. Such a variation would need to be recorded in the system logbook.
b) The name and telephone number of any third party responsible for maintenance of the system
should be prominently displayed at the main CIE, and the records and documentation as
identified in Clause 40 should be kept updated.
c) The user should record all faults or damage in the system logbook, and should arrange for repair
to be carried out as soon as possible.

So:

1 - If you have an 8 hour response time is that to fix the fault? Or to attend first visit within 8 hours?
2 - Can you call the site and 'stop the clock' on the 8 hour response before, say, ordering parts, ordering a mewp, arranging access, dispatching an engineer etc etc?
3 - If there is an 8 hour response but the site closes in 2 hours and are unwilling to wait at the site for an engineer do you get another 6 hours the next day they are open to attend?
4 - Can you remotely access the system e.g. dialling in to a system, talking the customer through a problem (e.g. temporary mains failure) or do you have to physically visit site?

Opinions on a postcard please!

1. yes to get there not fix
2. yes the clock has stopped its a response time not a fix time
3. its a contractual issue now as they will not wait
4. if you can fix over the phone or remotely and the customer is happy then you might not have to visit site but again its contractual and all depends what you did over the phone. talked them through changing a broken frangible element in a call point which was successful why attend site next day?

and who's contracts say 4 hours not 8 ?
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
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#3
(02-07-2019, 02:02 PM)Will Lloyd Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 01:03 PM)alonso Wrote: As detailed in 2017 bs5839:

46.3 Recommendations for arrangements for repair of faults or damage
The following recommendations are applicable.
a) Where maintenance is carried out by a third party, such as a fire alarm maintenance
organization, there should be an agreement for emergency call out to deal with any fault or
damage that occurs to the system.
The agreement should be such that, on a 24 h basis, a technician of the maintenance organization
can normally attend the premises within 8 h of a call from the user.
NOTE It is accepted that this might not be possible in very remote areas and certain offshore islands, in which
case this ought to be regarded as a variation from the recommendations of this part of BS 5839 in respect of
maintenance arrangements. Such a variation would need to be recorded in the system logbook.
b) The name and telephone number of any third party responsible for maintenance of the system
should be prominently displayed at the main CIE, and the records and documentation as
identified in Clause 40 should be kept updated.
c) The user should record all faults or damage in the system logbook, and should arrange for repair
to be carried out as soon as possible.

So:

1 - If you have an 8 hour response time is that to fix the fault? Or to attend first visit within 8 hours?
2 - Can you call the site and 'stop the clock' on the 8 hour response before, say, ordering parts, ordering a mewp, arranging access, dispatching an engineer etc etc?
3 - If there is an 8 hour response but the site closes in 2 hours and are unwilling to wait at the site for an engineer do you get another 6 hours the next day they are open to attend?
4 - Can you remotely access the system e.g. dialling in to a system, talking the customer through a problem (e.g. temporary mains failure) or do you have to physically visit site?

Opinions on a postcard please!

1. yes to get there not fix
2. yes the clock has stopped its a response time not a fix time
3. its a contractual issue now as they will not wait
4. if you can fix over the phone or remotely and the customer is happy then you might not have to visit site but again its contractual and all depends what you did over the phone. talked them through changing a broken frangible element in a call point which was successful why attend site next day?  

and who's contracts say 4 hours not 8 ?
I`ve seen contracts set up for a 4 hour response and the NHS sites I looked after had a 2 hour response time
Peter Robinson




07889 038650

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#4
Sainsburys had 4 hours, even the remote sites in Scotland.
You would get there and the manager would be in a bulls*&^ meeting, sign here please.
Can you not wait as the manager might not be long. NO, other customers will be happy I attend this quick.
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#5
I think pretty much every firm I've worked at have operated on a 4hr response time. I figured it was the norm actually.
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#6
I’ve always considered a telephone call to be a valid response to a call out.
Until ‘Response’ is assigned a definitive meaning (in the context of the standard) a telephone call is valid response. What happens after that initial response is down to a variety of factors and should be dealt with on a site-by-site basis.
www.ajfire.co.uk

"Independent BAFE Accredited Fire Protection Specialists"

- SP203-1; FDA Maintenance; 
- SP205-1; Life Safety Fire Risk Assessment
- Members of the Fire Industry Association (FIA)
- SafeContractor Approved


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#7
Ta all!
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#8
(02-07-2019, 09:26 PM)Royce44 Wrote: I think pretty much every firm I've worked at have operated on a 4hr response time. I figured it was the norm actually.

4 hours is the response time in the intruder standards which is why everyone thinks its the norm
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
Reply
#9
Interestingly, the BAFE SP203-1 definition of ‘response’ is physical attendance to site (as per scheme document).
www.ajfire.co.uk

"Independent BAFE Accredited Fire Protection Specialists"

- SP203-1; FDA Maintenance; 
- SP205-1; Life Safety Fire Risk Assessment
- Members of the Fire Industry Association (FIA)
- SafeContractor Approved


Reply
#10
(03-07-2019, 08:32 PM)Ghostrider Wrote: Interestingly, the BAFE SP203-1 definition of ‘response’ is physical attendance to site (as per scheme document).

Oh ok. Can you copy and paste the specifics here?
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