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Fire system competence what is it.
#1
I am at a meeting Monday discussing how can we measure competence of a fire alarm engineer with what is available here and now.

My question is, as hopefully competent fire system engineers how would you prove your competence.
What evidence could we use to say this is what top level fire alarm engineer would have ?.
Chairman of the FSA 
All my opinions are my own. I speak my own mind.  
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#2
Well as you know my view is that to prove that you are competent it must be a proper level 3 OFQUAL regulated qualification

Ok the number of people who are surprised I said that must be huge

But it’s the best that we currently have and saying the old FIA units are enough is probably not going to fly in the post Grenfell era

The ECS gold card is being talked about as what people should have. The problem is that a fire alarm guy can’t get a full gold card
If you would like a white one with a gold stripe then do the FIA qualifications and get one

What Tom is rightfully trying to do is prepare everyone for what might come as a result of Grenfell

Is third party certification the way to go? And leave this skills card to others?
What would BAFE do ?
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
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#3
(06-07-2019, 08:53 AM)Diver233 Wrote: I am at a meeting Monday discussing how can we measure competence of a fire alarm engineer with what is available here and now.

My question is, as hopefully competent fire system engineers how would you prove your competence.
What evidence could we use to say this is what top level fire alarm engineer would have ?.


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#4
Ok Trickle Charge Prove it
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
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#5
Will I Love it when people feel the need to explain competent person clause in BS5839-1 and how it is interpreted to the only two people who wrote it?.

Will is 100% correct, post Grenfell we will all need to be able to prove we are competent.
Same Judith has clearly set out people must have qualifications and a central register or card scheme that building owners etc can easily check.
Initially it will be high risk buildings but this will cascade down they line.
The Government has said they will take forward all 53 of Dame Judith’s recommendations. If we as the fire industry do not set what is competency someone else will.
Chairman of the FSA 
All my opinions are my own. I speak my own mind.  
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#6
How is it the Fire alarm engineers problem regards Grenfell?

Cladding - yes Overcrowding of flats - yes Bad house keeping - yes place was a sh1thole - yes
All posts are of my own opinion and knowledge and do not reflect the views of the Company I work for.
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#7
It’s not about any of that, it’s about ensuring no matter what is installed and maintained people are competent to do the job they are being paid to do. Fire alarms is only a small part of it, but a very important one.
Chairman of the FSA 
All my opinions are my own. I speak my own mind.  
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#8
We have two options, we either get on the bus and help drive it, or we wait at the bus stop and let someone else drive it.
Chairman of the FSA 
All my opinions are my own. I speak my own mind.  
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#9
sitting on the fence here but I thought that if you paid all the money to get Bafe etc then you are proving to your Customers that you are not a bunch of cowboys and competent?

Yes - I agree that Fire companies can have very good and some not so good engineers but why not start making it much harder for run of the mill electrical contractors throwing in rubbish and push for the fire and security trade to be completely separate from Electrical?
At the moment fire is lumped in with M&E on Tenders and the Electrical contractor usually takes the installation work away from fire companies and make a bodge.

The biggest problem I see if poorly installed fire alarms from the outset and there doesn't seem to be much of a push stopping this.

So if the fire industry all get pushed done the Qualifications route to be able to Install and Commission etc - will there be a stop to Electrical Contractors working on them ? I doubt it

and what about Consultants and Architects banging out fire alarm designs ? - will they suddenly have to stop ? I doubt that too
All posts are of my own opinion and knowledge and do not reflect the views of the Company I work for.
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#10
(08-07-2019, 10:02 AM)Graeme Wrote: sitting on the fence here but I thought that if you paid all the money to get Bafe etc then you are proving to your Customers that you are not a bunch of cowboys and competent?

Yes - I agree that Fire companies can have very good and some not so good engineers but why not start making it much harder for run of the mill electrical contractors throwing in rubbish and push for the fire and security trade to be completely separate from Electrical?  
At the moment fire is lumped in with M&E on Tenders and the Electrical contractor usually takes the installation work away from fire companies and make a bodge.

The biggest problem I see if poorly installed fire alarms from the outset and there doesn't seem to be much of a push stopping this.

So if the fire industry all get pushed done the Qualifications route to be able to Install and Commission etc - will there be a stop to Electrical Contractors working on them ? I doubt it

and what about Consultants and Architects banging out fire alarm designs ? - will they suddenly have to stop ? I doubt that too

I agree, There are some very good installers out there but even the good ones hands are tied when the consultant does not know how to design properly....... How it gets sorted won’t be easy.... as long as it doesn’t end up the next part P.

On the cost of the standards to make exams open book..... shouldn’t we have them all anyway?...... can you be expected to remember everything on site. The cost is ridiculous but I wonder if people would sign up to a registration scheme that included the standards maybe. I know the office may have access to them via mai membership but what about individuals
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