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L3 nad voids
Thoughts please on a dispute over a site we are taking over - original details in blue, my complaints in red, their responses in green: First issue is 3 small rooms each with one door leading on to the kitchen (1 tiny office, 2 stores) off the main area of a kitchen so you have to go through the kitchen to get to the final exit so in my book that makes the kitchen an escape route and therefore covered under L3

The system is L3 not L1, ****** will need to update their documentation and indicate any variation if applicable, or provide additional detection. – L3 category covers escape routes and areas off escape routes, all of these rooms in the kitchen are off on escape route so should have afd. . Automatic detection is only required in Escape Routes and voids above escape routes The kitchen in this instance is only an Access room for the stores and small office and not an escape room so is classed as an adjoining room

Void detection is not automatically required, it is subject to risk assessment, if ******* can demonstrate by risk assessment that devices are not required this is acceptable, if they cannot demonstrate this additional detection will be required. – If an area is stated as L3 then this area needs detection in the voids as well as the main area On checking the drawings with ********** has fitted automatic detection in the voids above the escape routes as required on an  L3 system in this area (L3 only requires void detection in the areas above the escape route not the in the voids of  adjoining rooms)

I thought if it was an L3 system you needed void afd in the areas off the escape routes as well as in the voids for the escape routes?

If anyone has specific clauses in BS5839 to back this up I'd be eternally grateful

Side issue some toilet cubicles have beacons in and some don't. They say if 'you're hard of hearing you'll be directed to specific toilet cubicles'. Discrimination? Equality Act?
Ok one thing at a time
The kitchen being an access room

In buildings with inner rooms from which escape is possible only by passing through another (“access”) room, it is common practice for a smoke detector to be installed in the access room unless there is adequate vision between the inner room and the access room. The purpose of this smoke detector is to give early warning to occupants of the inner room before fire in the access room prevents their means of escape.

so if you can't see into the kitchen to see if there is a fire then you should have detection in the access room

now on to the void

In a Category L2 or L3 system, detectors in rooms opening onto escape routes are provided only to give a warning of fire before it affects the escape routes. Detection in voids above or below the rooms might not be necessary for this purpose (e.g. if fire-resisting construction separates a void from the adjacent escape route).

so the void above the escape route needs detection but the void in room off the escape route does not along as there is a fire resisting structure up to the true ceiling

Sanitary Accommodation. needs vads under ADM and equaity act but i would not put them in the cubical of a multi cubical toilet

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
As Will says the access room requires AFD anyway without vision panels or partitions ending 500mm below the ceiling and more to the point you aren't supposed to have access rooms that are areas of high risk anyway so unless the kitchen is just a kettle there are issues to resolve more than just a detector.
Anthony Buck
Fire Safety Technical Lead @ BAFE SP205 accredited company
Extinguisher specialist
Thank you anthony and will excellent as always! Is this in bs583o somewhere so i can quote clauses?
It's in Building Regulations 3.10 Approved Document B), current risk assessment guidance (& indeed fire safety guidance going back 50 years as part of conditions for granting a fire certificate.)

[Image: 257.png]
[Image: innerrooms.jpg]
Anthony Buck
Fire Safety Technical Lead @ BAFE SP205 accredited company
Extinguisher specialist

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