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Unconventional wiring of an addressable system
#1
Just after the views of people on a thought, we have just taken over a system which is in the region of 20 years old, the system is conventional wired out on multiple radial zone circuits. What has become apparent is the zoning is not really what we would like to see. There is no way of re cabling the system other than surface which the client will not allow. They are thinking of upgrading the system as about half devices are original ION smokes. What's the thought of replacing with an addressable system, but running legs as radials and just bridging the loop connections at the panel? Obviously I am fully aware this is not the correct way of doing this, however with what I am given surely this would be better than replacing as is and zones being incorrect again, we could then get much more detailed point location, if any devices were removed or cable severed we would get missing device faults generated. The wiring method could be fully documented and client made aware of downfalls.
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#2
(02-10-2019, 06:41 AM)Rubble1952 Wrote: Just after the views of people on a thought, we have just taken over a system which is in the region of 20 years old, the system is conventional wired out on multiple radial zone circuits. What has become apparent is the zoning is not really what we would like to see. There is no way of re cabling the system other than surface which the client will not allow. They are thinking of upgrading the system as about half devices are original ION smokes. What's the thought of replacing with an addressable system, but running legs as radials and just bridging the loop connections at the panel? Obviously I am fully aware this is not the correct way of doing this, however with what I am given surely this would be better than replacing as is and zones being incorrect again, we could then get much more detailed point location, if any devices were removed or cable severed we would get missing device faults generated. The wiring method could be fully documented and client made aware of downfalls.

If done correctly with isolators can be compliant still.......as you said not ideal but can be done...... what protocol devices??
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#3
Or go wireless?
Martin Wison
KGM Fire and Security Distribution Ltd.
Maidstone, Kent.
01634 716882
http://www.kgmfireandsecurity.co.uk
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#4
Radio or as Mr C mentions with Isolators but depends on how many detectors are on the zone and how many zones you have
All posts are of my own opinion and knowledge and do not reflect the views of the Company I work for.
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#5
Iv had to do this before. I fitted a strip of din rail in the back of the new addressable panel and installed Apollos mini din rail switch monitors with built in isolators. I used 1 switch monitor for each zone circuit, take your loop in and out of each switch monitor on the IN side and connect each zone circuit into the OUT side of each switch monitor. That way if a cable is damaged before it reaches the first isolator on your zone circuit, it won't wipe out your entire loop. Hope that makes sense.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...   24

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#6
I think he is looking for addressable radials from what I read into it Dan
All posts are of my own opinion and knowledge and do not reflect the views of the Company I work for.
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#7
I think he knew that Graeme, he's describing connecting the existing zone cabling to the loop.

Apollo do make (or at least they used to make) din mounted dual isolators which I assume are specifically for this purpose. I'd like to think they're cheaper than the switch monitors.
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#8
(02-10-2019, 07:10 PM)Monkeh Wrote: I think he knew that Graeme, he's describing connecting the existing zone cabling to the loop.

Apollo do make (or at least they used to make) din mounted dual isolators which I assume are specifically for this purpose. I'd like to think they're cheaper than the switch monitors.

Apollo still do make them...... fitted one today!
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#9
(02-10-2019, 07:10 PM)Monkeh Wrote: I think he knew that Graeme, he's describing connecting the existing zone cabling to the loop.

Apollo do make (or at least they used to make) din mounted dual isolators which I assume are specifically for this purpose. I'd like to think they're cheaper than the switch monitors.

why zone monitors then?
All posts are of my own opinion and knowledge and do not reflect the views of the Company I work for.
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#10
I think it was just for the isolator (it was switch monitors he was using, not zone monitors) 

He said to connect the zones to the "out" side of the switch monitor .

It's not an ideal connection anyway, with all the loop connections into the "in" terminals , the loop itself isn't short circuit isolated.

Better to just connect the loop ins and outs as normal but then always make sure the radials are connected on the same side (either in or out) so that no two zones share a connection without going through an isolator.

That counts for the duals too, they have two separate sets of loop terminations (one for each isolator), so it's loop in on channel 1 in, loop out and zone 1 on channel 1 out, in to channel 2 in, out and zone 2 on channel 2, then on to the next dual isolator. 
Each zone is then basically connected to 2 different isolators that will kick in if it develops a short and keeps the others online .
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