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Detection in Entrance Foyers
#1
Hey Folks.

I know I have read it, but cant find it - I am blaming old timers/alzheimers.

Entrance Lobby to a premises, i.e. the small space between 2 sets of double doors, which opens into the street.

I am sure there is something somewhere that confirms detection is not required, due to the likelihood of false alarms from outside the premises, traffic fumes dirt dust etc.

Can anyone point me in the right direction.

Thanksverymuchindeed!

Bill
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#2
On a FRA I had to fit one between two automatic doors at a hospital

22.3 f) Detectors within rooms that open onto escape routes in a Category L3 system should either be
sited in accordance with 22.3e) or should be sited on a wall, close to any door that opens onto an
escape route. Wall-mounted detectors should be sited such that the top of the detection element
is between 150 mm and 300 mm below the ceiling, and the bottom of the detection element is
above the level of the door opening

Not sure if that is the right one - the other reason I had to fit one is above the ceiling was a fan heater and the controls for the doors
Peter Robinson




07889 038650

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#3
low fire risk and high false alarm risk i would not fit one.
technically not a stairway lobby. but using the rational of BS 5893-1:2017 8.2 f) 2) is my thinking
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
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#4
(13-03-2020, 09:18 AM)Will Lloyd Wrote: low fire risk and high false alarm risk i would not fit one.
technically not a stairway lobby. but using the rational of BS 5893-1:2017 8.2 f) 2) is my thinking
Bugger, if you do not know, I must have dreamt it.

I agree Will, and that is exactly my reasoning, however I need to justify to a client and I have definitely read it somewhere - always good to copy from a source, as it backs up what I have told them already.

The search continues!

Bill
"it is lit up like a Xmas tree and I cant shut it up, has not worked since you installed it in 2015, is it still under warranty?"
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#5
What if it is used in a L5/m system to activate fire doors will? I presume you fit one then so you have afd each side of the door release magnets?
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#6
What if there is a letterbox, arson risk?
I'm not the messiah,i'm a very naughty boy!!!
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#7
(13-03-2020, 10:30 AM)Bill-J Wrote:
(13-03-2020, 09:18 AM)Will Lloyd Wrote: low fire risk and high false alarm risk i would not fit one.
technically not a stairway lobby. but using the rational of BS 5893-1:2017 8.2 f) 2) is my thinking
Bugger, if you do not know, I must have dreamt it.

I agree Will, and that is exactly my reasoning, however I need to justify to a client and I have definitely read it somewhere - always good to copy from a source, as it backs up what I have told them already.

The search continues!

Bill

So your not happy with the response?  Exclamation Huh

Well if you really want something written down!  Read

PD 6531:2018

3.10 The need for detectors within sterile lobbies and similar areas of low fire hazard in Category L2 and L3 systems

Query
In a Category L1 system, BS 5839‑1:2017, 8.2f), permits detectors to be omitted from certain specified rooms or areas of low fire risk (a term that is defined in the standard). Does this mean that, for compliance with BS 5839‑1 for a Category L2 or L3 system, detectors need to be installed in these rooms or areas of low fire risk?

Answer
The Committee did not intend to imply that the omission in question could not be applied to Category L2 and L3 systems. The scheme of system categories needs to be regarded as hierarchal. The first step in designing a Category L2 system can be regarded as the design of a Category L3 system; then, conceptually, additional detectors are installed in certain rooms (or the type and siting of detectors in certain rooms are modified) to create a Category L2 system. This system then affords a higher
standard of protection than the original Category L3 system.

Similarly, conceptually, the protection could be further enhanced by the provision of further detectors in any remaining unprotected areas [other than those specified in 8.2f)], so creating a Category L1 system, which affords the highest possible level of protection. It would be anomalous if, in the above concept, to create a Category L1 system, certain detectors present in the original Category L3 (or Category L2) system were removed. Accordingly, given that detectors are not necessary in certain areas of low fire risk for compliance with the recommendations applicable to Category L1, they would not be necessary for compliance with the recommendations applicable to Categories L2 and L3. This is now made clear in a note to 8.2f) in the 2017 edition of the standard.

Which again points at 8.2 f) whic is what i said lol  Biggrin
www.fia.uk.com

Technical Manager FIA

All comments and views are mine own and may not reflect the views of FIA
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#8
Will Lloyd Wrote:
So your not happy with the response?  Exclamation Huh


Lol, no quibbles with the response. I was aware of the lobbies and had already checked PD 6531 - and have already stated that I am not putting them there for that reason, (tc - no letterbox) (Alonso - External doors not linked to FA - Normally open all day, inner doors unlock on all fire activities)

But I am sure I have read specifically that the Entrance Lobby in a double double door lobby does not need detection due to external environmental influences. 

Will check 9999,9991,ADB, etc etc

Bill
"it is lit up like a Xmas tree and I cant shut it up, has not worked since you installed it in 2015, is it still under warranty?"
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