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Call points to open air
#1
I know the standard asks for MCPs on all exits to open air, but does anyone have experience of open areas that are technically open air, but provides no means of escape from the building (eg a garden in the middle of a building, surrounded on all sides) that could actually prevent escape. Should MCPs be installed adjacent doors opening onto these areas regardless or can they be omitted due to a known variation?
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#2
I've seen this before with doors leading to a 'quad' used as a garden (no way out from it other than sometimes to enter through another door back into the building - and sometimes not even that).

I wouldn't install call points if the area it led into was relatively small (and it was obvious from standing at that door that an escape from it was unlikely). I would argue that it isn't strictly an escape to the 'open air'.
However, if it was largish area and/or it wasn't obvious that there was no further way from it out to the 'open air', I would install them.
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#3
i would still ist as a variation though.
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#4
Thanks for your input guys.

Wiz, I'm thinking along the same lines as you & yes it is a quad style garden (5 doors onto it from various rooms).

I would list as a variation Graeme, I just need to define the grounds for the variation so that the consultant can understand why (preferably using words of no more than two syllables...). Would it be that it's not strictly an exit
from the building?
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#5
ask if it classed as a fire escape by site should be in there assiment if not a fire escape/ on fire route then i would say no but highlight it on the report. i had a simalar discussion when doing a warehouse as not all exits had mcps but site stated in their report that only fire escape route doors had mcps fitted as partically it was impossible to cover all exits with mcps
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#6
BS5839-1 doesn't give a definition of the term 'open air' and is therefore open to interpretation.

In the case mentioned in the OP the interpretation may be that the doors do not allow exit from the building to a place where one has totally escaped the dangers presented by a fire.
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#7
Our man says call points by all exits to air, regardless of where they lead or they must be listed as variations.

The other point to consider is what if people are sitting in the quad and they see a fire through the glass within the building?

Do they pass a call point along the escape route or would they possibly have to pass through the danger area in order to reach a call point that may only be installed on the perimeter exit??
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#8
(21-06-2011, 05:20 PM)ESP Wrote: Our man says call points by all exits to air, regardless of where they lead or they must be listed as variations.

The other point to consider is what if people are sitting in the quad and they see a fire through the glass within the building?

Do they pass a call point along the escape route or would they possibly have to pass through the danger area in order to reach a call point that may only be installed on the perimeter exit??

If seeing a fire in the building from the quad, there are exits from it leading to corridor escape routes at opposing sides of the building with MCPs on them. Not sure how accessible the doors will be at this point tho...
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#9
(21-06-2011, 05:12 PM)Wiz Wrote: BS5839-1 doesn't give a definition of the term 'open air' and is therefore open to interpretation.

Does it need to give a definition when the dictionary gives it so well?

Quote:Open air

noun
a free or unenclosed space outdoors:getting out in the open air
adjective
located or taking place out of doors:an open-air swimming pool

It does need to be taken sensibly. Most hotel balconies can't be used as an escape route but do they need to be listed as a variation? I very much doubt you would be pulled up on it if you didn't.
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#10
(21-06-2011, 06:20 PM)Kilo-Foxtrot Wrote:
(21-06-2011, 05:12 PM)Wiz Wrote: BS5839-1 doesn't give a definition of the term 'open air' and is therefore open to interpretation.

Does it need to give a definition when the dictionary gives it so well?

Quote:Open air

noun
a free or unenclosed space outdoors:getting out in the open air
adjective
located or taking place out of doors:an open-air swimming pool

It does need to be taken sensibly. Most hotel balconies can't be used as an escape route but do they need to be listed as a variation? I very much doubt you would be pulled up on it if you didn't.

As could all windows etc, in the absence of a clear defenition from BS common sense should prevail , how many times have we all heard , it isnt an escape route so why do we need a callpoint , this i think answers the question. The installation of a callpoint to a non exit or safe route could confuse members of the general public as a number percieve it as a fire exit .
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