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Full-time designer VS. Outsource designer - Do you guys agree with difference?
#1
Blog Video
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#2
I would never outsource the design of a fire alarm system, it's bad enough that sparky's, M&E consultants and security guys think they can design a fire alarm system when most of them don't have a clue.

It may be a useful service to a small company who could not afford to employ a full time designer but you will find that these guys will have the knowledge at all levels so again these guys wear a number of different Hats and would undertake that element themselves.

From my perspective I would never trust a design except my own (or a colleague with whom I have worked with for an amount of time) not that I am saying I am perfect but it's my name on the certificate, my name associated with that design and if anyone else was to design a system for me I would expect them to take all the risk (which I am sure most would not do).

Finally as you guys are based in the states, I would assume that you will have little or no knowledge of the relevant fire requirements of the UK and Europe, which are evidently very different to US National Fire Alarm Code, NFPA 72.

It's a nice thought, may work well in the states but over here I think people have tried and failed to offer that service, most guys who run a fire alarm business would expect everyone to have some element of design knowledge, the scenarios in the blog would just be worked around otherwise you manage the client's expectations

I have designed systems in the UK, Europe to both BS5839 Pt:1 2013, EN54 as well as a number of systems in America to US National Fire Alarm Code, NFPA 72 and I still have to refer to my manuals, books and annoy my fellow pros with stupid questions about certain areas that I have little experience in.
Notifier ESD, Siemens Technology Partner, Autronica Specialist
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#3
You have a point but at the same time someone wouldn't just grab plans and assume everything's great and head on down to the job site. Well, they shouldn't anyway. That's just something you can go back and forth collaborating on in the design process. It depends on the company, some have a demand for it. I think we will see it more and more in the future.
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#4
Most of our work is provided already on plans by consultants.

This isn't to say they are always right...more often than not we will have to amend them to the specification and then submit it for additional costs.

Maybe a market for the consultants more than the fire companies as I doubt any genuine fire companies would bother farming that out.
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#5
It doesnt really work that way, alot of the work we do is pre construction so the benefits of going to site are not available, its very rare that a design that is completed and accepted by all parties is the design that ends up being applied onsite, there are unknown factors that you can only take into account when you are installing.

This is why the project team, design team and install teams all have a part to play, just because I have designed a system, got an order and passed it over to the projects team does not mean my job is finished, I still expect to have involvement in design changes and site meetings until final completion.

Don't get me wrong, i like the idea but as Zen as said I think this is something that will be used more by consultants rather than Fire Companies, if said fire company does not have sufficient design knowledge within its ranks then I would say they are not very genuine.

You may find that on smaller jobs it could be beneficial but on larger jobs it becomes an issue, granted you may charge for producing an initial design but then you will have design changes, building revisions, site meetings, design meetings etc, that where the cost starts to add up and it could become a cash cow for said design company, this is from experience having provided a design service for a large project in London where the contractor wanted to supply, install and commission the system but did not have the design capability, turned out to cost them a hell of a lot more money, in fact it would have been cheaper to let us supply, design, install and commission the fire alarm system (when you take their costs and what we charged for design into account) so they now pass us all their work as they know it will be more cost effective, plus we take the risk.

Like i said in my previous post I just don't think there is a massive need for it in the UK, the cost will no doubt outweigh the benefits.

Good Luck tho guys.
Notifier ESD, Siemens Technology Partner, Autronica Specialist
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#6
Lowvolteng, I don't want to seem pedantic but I have just had a quick look at your website (the technical information page) and I have noticed a number of small things that, as a person with a technical background, would deter me from using your services, if I was looking for such.
Under the 'killing two birds with one stone' tech tip you infer the distance of 15 feet is the same as 475m, the word 'close' is spelled wrongly and the whole article seems to me as just 'stating the blindingly obvious!' I.e not using two devices where the codes of practice distance recommendations would allow a single device.
Also, the other tech tip which you call 'Battery Calculation' has nothing to do with batteries but is actually a calculation for cable voltage drop.
I promise you that this is not a cheap dig at your efforts but an honest assessment. My belief is that when you are trying to convince technical people of your own outstanding technical ability you can't afford to make a single mistake in your information or not state the obvious as something to be impressed by.
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#7
Wiz dropping it like it's hot already in 2016.
Whistle Admit to nothing, deny everythingWhistle
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#8
Booooooooom
Notifier ESD, Siemens Technology Partner, Autronica Specialist
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#9
Dont sit on the fence Wiz.....lol
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#10
Bloody hell WHEN is someone going to fix this site!!!!!!!!!!
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